随着经济发展和自主意识的觉醒，近年来，越来越多的南方国家更注重在国际舞台上被看见和听到，南方国家之间也开始报团取暖，加强彼此交流和合作，南方中心便是其重要平台之一。

近日，南方中心主任卡洛斯·科雷亚（Carlos Correa）在瑞士接受观察者网对话，就南方国家如何提升话语权以及去美元化、脱钩等议题表达了自己的看法，并介绍了南方中心的工作内容。

观察者网编辑对话科雷亚

南方中心源自不结盟运动倡议，于1990年在原南方委员会基础上建立，总部位于日内瓦，其基本宗旨是加强南方各国的团结与合作，推动建立共同立场，帮助南方国家解决外交和政策难题。目前，南方中心有55个成员国，中国是其创始成员国之一。

以下为对话实录：

【对话、翻译/观察者网 李泽西】

观察者网：可否简单介绍一下南方中心的工作？

科雷亚：南方中心是一个政府间组织，主要工作是帮助发展中国家开展政策研究，以便其制定国家和地区政策，促进当地发展。同时，南方中心还为发展中国家就贸易、投资、知识产权、健康等问题的国际谈判过程提供支持。除此之外，我们还努力提高成员国应对重要问题的能力，比如为南方国家提供提高治理能力的培训，税收在最近一段时间也成为南方中心非常关注的问题。

观察者网：您认为南方中心近期最大的成就是什么？

科雷亚：南方中心确实帮助发展中国家统一了行动。在很多情况下，单个发展中国家势单力薄，无法影响国际谈判的结果。因此，南方中心为发展中国家提供一个共同讨论的平台，互相了解各国不同的利益。我们希望能够推动发展中国家达成共同的立场，以便在国际舞台上有效制衡发达国家的势力。

我认为这是南方中心的一个重要成就，多领域支持发展中国家，提高发展中国家对议题的理解程度以及集体影响力。我们在很多领域发布了政策研究报告，被成员国实地使用。我们对报告和书籍的下载量感到非常满意，这也体现了我们出版的内容对发展中国家解决相关问题确实有帮助。

观察者网：南方中心是如何处理它所进行的所有工作的？如何确定工作优先等级？

科雷亚：我们工作的重点是由南方中心董事会确定的，董事会每三年制定一次工作计划；同时也由南方中心的各成员国确定，各国代表每年开展一次理事会。董事会和理事会都会判定哪些是发展中国家的关注重点。

当然，重点会随着时间的推移而变化。发展资本仍然是一个重要的议题，但气候变化最近才成为一个重要议题，贸易与发展、贸易与环境的关系也愈发具有挑战性。

鉴于成员国的重要性，我们在日内瓦与各国大使和代表团有非常密切的联系，试图了解各国的需求和关注的问题，然后就这些议题开展工作，试图满足发展中国家的需求，并灵活响应当前局势和关注点。例如，在新冠疫情期间，南方中心做了大量的工作，了解疫苗分配不平等的状况，研究发展中国家如何销售、如何自制研发疫苗。

科雷亚（台上左一）出席联合国人权理事会第41次会议中国与非洲共同举办的“发展对享有所有人权的贡献”主题边会

观察者网：您刚才说对报告和书籍的下载量感到满意，但您认为南方中心如何能进一步提高其影响力？

科雷亚：我们从不安于现状，我们知道自己可以做得更多，可以继续改进。因此，我们需要成员国更积极的参与。因为总部设在日内瓦，所以我们与各国在日内瓦的代表团都有密切的联系。

放眼未来，一个重要的目标是加强与各国首都的接触，而非单纯与大使联系，让各国更了解我们在做什么，出版了什么，我们正在进行什么样的研究，帮助发展中国家更好地从中受益。此外，我们还希望得到更多来自各国政府的反馈，这对我们非常重要。

我们在过去几年中改良了对外沟通策略，在社交媒体和报告出版方面都已经有了很大的改进，但仍有提高的空间。就此，我们希望得到成员国和未来新成员的更多支持，我们也正在发展新的南方国家加入南方中心，希望我们的未来能有更大的影响力。

观察者网：当下，有越来越多的组织、论坛和机构声称代表发展中国家的观点和利益。您认为南方中心与众不同之处在于什么？

科雷亚：正如我提到的，南方中心是一个政府间组织。与一些其他组织或特定的非政府机构不同，我们没有自己的特有立场议程，我们的立场基于发展中国家的立场。南方中心是由发展中国家创建的，由他们所有，为他们工作，这是一个区别。

正如我之前提到的，我们对成员国的需求变化反应非常敏捷，这是与其他组织的另一个主要区别。作为一个政府间组织，我们与各国驻日内瓦使团来往密切，他们是我们的主要受众。

当然，我们也与学者、其他非政府组织、民间社会建立了关系，这些都非常重要，但我们的主要工作对象是各国政府，特别是那些在日内瓦参与国际谈判的人，有时也包括驻纽约或维也纳的使团人员。

观察者网：您认为发展中国家目前面临的最紧迫的挑战是什么？

科雷亚：有很多挑战，包括解决气候变化问题，获取资金以实施适应的政策，走出新冠疫情，解决各国财政状况等都是重要问题。

绿色发展需要金融的支持

债务也是个问题，许多国家都负债累累，特别是低收入国家和一些中等收入国家。国际金融架构的改革也是一个重大问题，发展中国家需要朝这个方向努力，确保这个问题得到解决。

南方中心成员国在与世贸组织谈判方面也面临着挑战。发达国家提出了一些改革，但我们当然也需要来自发展中国家的改革议程，以确保如果世贸组织的改革是为了解决发展需求，并以非歧视的方式改革国际贸易。

观察者网：您认为应如何改革国际金融架构？这个问题当下备受关注，因为中国正在与一些巴黎俱乐部发达国家就如何重组赞比亚的主权债务进行谈判。这一谈判过程被多方视为是一个重要的指标，预示未来类似谈判可能达成什么样的结果。

科雷亚：我认为这是一个重要的里程碑。我们需要改革国际金融架构，需要改变国际借款的方式以及借款人的角色，例如改进特别提款权的分配，确保资金到达真正有需求的国家。

我们需要重审“美元霸权”，美元的主导地位正在损害许多发展中国家利益，多国的货币都在贬值，当下的金融体系也造成多国经济难以自力更生。各国确实需要一起努力，以便有效地改变这个体系，这是南方中心成员国的一个主要改革诉求。

观察者网：在债务重组和去美元化方面，南方中心正在研究什么样的解决方案？

科雷亚：债务重组是非常重要的。我们需要找到一个架构，以助于发展中国家克服当前状况。而非美元化的问题迫在眉睫，我们需要做好准备，并寻找替代货币。这两方面都相当重要。

观察者网：有什么实际可行的方案？

科雷亚：我们需要确保更多发展中国家参与寻找方案的过程。正如我所提到的，去美元化是可预见的，例如，中国现在加大人民币国际化的力度，印度也在努力推广卢比，其他许多国家也开始在使用这些货币了。拉丁美洲多国也在商讨创造一个共同货币，以便参与贸易。

这些倡议是相当重要的，可能是改变当前“美元霸权”国际体系的基础，而当前的体系并不利于南方中心成员国的发展。

2022年，赞比亚总统（右）会见中国驻赞大使杜晓晖（左）（图源：新华社）

观察者网：您曾担任南方中心的贸易和知识产权顾问。就知识产权而言，有时确实会阻碍发展；就贸易而言，近年炒作日益火热的“脱钩”概念已经导致中国和美国都在努力确保构建各自的贸易和知识产权网络。鉴于此，在贸易和知识产权方面，全球各国应开展哪些方面的改革？

科雷亚：世贸组织下有一个协议，即《与贸易有关的知识产权协议》，该协议建立了国际知识产权基本标准。一个努力的目标可能是重审这个协议，因为它显然不利于发展中国家，特别是在某些领域，如药品或疫苗研发。当然，这可能是一个难以实现的目标，因为发达国家费尽心思要保护当前的体系、保护他们的知识产权。

因此，我们还可以选择暂时接受《与贸易有关的知识产权协议》架构，但尽可能地利用它允许的政策空间。现实是这里面有很大的政策空间，但未被许多发展中国家利用。例如，各国可制定一些授予专利权的要求，以避免企业利用某些策略维护垄断而非创新，这在植物和医药品领域都是非常重要的问题。

发展中国家还可以采取其他措施，例如，我们正与非洲国家在知识产权的限制与例外方面进行合作，以扩大公有领域，扩大可用于教育和研究的材料，以及促进和允许数字信息研究。这些都是可以做的事情。各国制定政策时，应该努力利用当前国际体系允许的政策空间。

观察者网：国际上最近关于“脱钩”和“对抗”的讨论越来越多，关键似乎在于美国希望强推西方民主制度，而中国则认为发展才是最重要的民主权利。您如何看待双方的说法？

科雷亚：我认为发展是至关重要的，这也是南方中心非常积极地促进推广“发展权”的原因之一。联合国早已通过《发展权利宣言》，现在多方正在讨论制定具有法律约束力的“发展权”协定。

另一点可以肯定的是，国际法的一个重要原则是不干涉别国内政，让每个国家自行决定发展路线。在南方中心看来，任何试图削弱这一原则的尝试都是不可接受的。每个国家都有权利自行制定发展方式，一些国家采用了非西方模式的发展方式，并取得巨大的成功，中国就是一个显著的例子。

因此，南方中心坚决反对美国塑造全世界的尝试。我们需要给各国提供自由空间，让它们做出自己的选择。我们也非常担心美国当下采取的一些措施，比如以国家安全为由禁止技术转让，禁止向中国等国家转让技术设备等。

2022年，美国出台了“芯片+法案”

“国家安全”是一个非常模糊的说法，但显然美国想阻止其他国家发展技术赶超自己，他们想继续当技术领导者。世界需要的是合作和团结，而不是试图阻碍其他国家的进步。我们对这些趋势感到十分担忧，支持发展中国家努力寻找自己的发展途径，并抵御美国的措施。

英文原文：

Guancha: Mr Correa, could you briefly describe to our viewers the work that South Centre does?

Correa: The South Centre is an intergovernmental organization. We have 55 members. The South Centre aims at providing policy-oriented research for developing countries to develop national, regional policies, which are adequate for the development efforts they undertake. And also very importantly, the South Centre provides support to developing countries to engage in international negotiations in different areas: trade, investment intellectual property, health, etc. This is a very important role that we play. In addition to this, we also try to enhance the capacity of our countries in dealing with some important issues, some of them I've just mentioned. So we do trainings and capacity building; taxation for instance became a very important issue for the South Centre in recent times in this regard.

Guancha: What would you say has been the greatest accomplishment of South Centre recently?

Correa: The South Centre has been able to help developing countries act together. In many instances, developing countries individually cannot influence the outcomes of international negotiations, therefore our role is to provide a platform for developing countries to discuss and understand their different interests. The ambition certainly is for us to get common positions in order to counterbalance the power of industrialized countries in many fora. I think this is an important achievement of the South Centre in many areas in which we have been able to support developing countries, by providing inputs for their participation in order for them to do tit in a more informed manner and influence the outcomes. We have done a lot of policy oriented research in many areas, which is being used by our countries as well. And when we look at the readership of our documents and books, we are very satisfied with the number of downloads. This an indicator of the impact that our publication have in addressing these issues which are so relevant for developing countries.

Guancha: Administratively, how does South Centre handle all the work it is conducting? How do you prioritize?

Correa: Our priorities are defined by the board of the South Centre, which elaborates every 3 years our work program, and they are also defined by the members of the South Centre, who meet once a year in the Council of Representatives. Both the Board and the Council decide what are the priorities for developing countries. Of course, these priorities change over time. For instance, climate change has become a major issue. Finance for development continues to be an important subject. Trade and development is also a challenging matter, including the relationship between trade and environment.

Hence, the priorities change over time. The South Centre is member driven. We have very close contact with ambassadors and delegations here in Geneva. We try to understand what the demands are, what the subjects of relevance are, and then we work on them.  We try to satisfy this demand and be able to operate in a manner which is dynamic and adapted to the circumstances at every time. For instance, during Covid-19, the South Centre did a lot of work in understanding what the situation was in terms of inequity in distribution of vaccines, how it could be solved, how manufacturing capacity could be enhanced in developing countries. This is one example of adaptation to the needs of developing countries at a certain point.

Guancha: You say that you are satisfied with the current reach of your reports, but how do you think you can further improve this reach and influence?

Correa: We are never fully satisfied, we understand that we can do more and that we can improve. We also need more engagement from our members. Because we're working in Geneva, we have close contact with Geneva delegations. An important objective for us is also to reach the capitals, for them to know what we are doing, what kind of analysis we are conducting, in order for them to be able eventually to benefit from that. It’s also very important for us to have the feedback from the capitals. In this regard, we have improved a lot based on a new communications policy implemented in the last few years, in terms of social media, and, as I mentioned, also dissemination of our publications. But there is room for improvement, hopefully with the support of our members and eventually new members; we are also looking for new developing countries to join the Centre. We hope that our role can be more impactful in the future.

Guancha: There are an increasing number of organizations, fora and international bodies that purport to represent the interest of developing countries and their perspective. What would you say sets South Centre apart from those other organizations?

Correa: As I mentioned, the South Centre is an intergovernmental organization. Unlike some other organizations, particularly non-government organizations, we do not have our own agenda. Our agenda is the agenda of developing countries. This organization has been created by developing countries, it works for them, is owned by the member countries, so this is perhaps one important difference. We are very sensitive, as I mentioned before, to the demands, to the interest that may change over time, and we try to respond to them; this may be a major difference with other organizations. The fact is that, as an intergovernmental organization, we deal with government delegations here or from their capitals, and this is our main audience. Of course, we also have relationships with scholars, with NGOs, civil society, and these are very important, but our main addressees are governments, in particular those who are involved in international negotiations in Geneva, as well as in New York or in Vienna in some cases.

Guancha: What would you say are the most pressing challenges facing developing countries right now?

Correa: Well, there are many. As we know, addressing the issue of climate change is a major challenge. Getting finance to implement policies in particular for adaptation is a particularly challenging. In recovering from Covid-19, addressing the financial situation and debt is a major problem, as many of our countries are indebted very heavily, in particular, low income and some middle income countries. The reform of the international financial architecture is a major issue; developing countries do need to work in that direction in order to ensure that this very significant problem is solved. Of course, there are other challenges, in terms of negotiations in WTO for instance. A reforms of WTO is being proposed by developed countries, and we certainly need an agenda from developing countries, so that this organization addresses the development needs and trade deals in a non-discriminatory manner.

Guancha: What do you think would be a viable path for reforming the international financial architecture? This is quite topical recently, because China is negotiating with some Paris Club countries about how Zambia's sovereign debt is going to be restructured. This is seen as a major landmark or a major indicator of how future negotiations might go.

Correa: I think that's an important step. We need the restructuring also of the international financial institutions, we need to give them a different approach. For instance, in relation to distribution of SDRs, they have not reached the countries that actually need them.

We need to look at the dominance of the US dollar, which also is hurting many developing countries, as can be seen now with the depreciation of the currencies of many. This is a major challenge for developing countries on which they really need to work together, in order to be effective in changing the system. This is a major need for our countries to reform. A key factor of dependency of our countries is the financial system as it is today. And this needs to be changed.

Guancha: What are some of the practical proposals that you're looking into for either debt restructuring or de-dollarization?

Correa: Both of them. Debt restructuring is very important. We need to find the framework in order to do this in a manner that will help developing countries to overcome the current situation. The issue of de-dollarization is something that is coming, and we need to be prepared and to develop alternatives for that.

Guancha: What are some ways or proposals for achieving these 2 goals that seem practical, right now?

Correa: Well, we still need to develop this in a manner that a significant number of developing countries join the efforts. As I mentioned, the possibility of de-dollarization is one which is foreseeable in the future, in the case of China, for instance, now with the use of yuan, also in the case of the currency of India, which is being used in many other countries. There have been some discussions in the context of Latin America also to develop a common currency to engage in trade. These initiatives are quite important, and this may be one of the basis for changing the current system, which is not supportive of development efforts of our countries.

Guancha: Previously, you had worked as an adviser on trade and intellectual property at the South Centre, which seems particularly relevant right now, both as intellectual property rights can sometimes hinder development, but also as talk of the decoupling has led to both China and the US working on securing their own trade and IP networks around the world. In light of this, what are some reforms that can be made on a global level?

Correa: There is an agreement in the WTO, the TRIPS agreement, that has established minimum standards for intellectual property. Of course, one objective may be to look again at this agreement, which is quite clearly not working in favor of developing countries, in particular in some areas such as medicines or vaccines. However, this may be a difficult objective to achieve given that developed countries are very eager to protect the system and the intellectual property that they generate. Therefore, what we have as an alternative is to work for the time being within the system, but to use to the full extent possible the policy space which is allowed by the international system today. And there is a lot of room to do this in many countries. many developing countries have not used to the full these flexibilities in terms of, for instance, developing rigorous requirements for the grant of patents that will avoid the use of strategies by companies to keep monopolies without actually producing innovation. This is a very important issue in some areas, such as in the area of plants and medicines.

There are other measures that can be adopted. For instance, in relation to limitations and exceptions for copyrights, we are working now with African countries to expand the public domain, increase the access to educational materials and research materials, and promote and allow research on the basis of digital information. All these are things that can be done. To the extent that national and regional policies are adapted, they should pursue this objective of using the policy space which is available today in the context of the international system.

Guancha: Recently there has been increased talk of decoupling and confrontation on the global stage. Key to this seems to be America's desire to see all countries adopt a more western model of democracy, of governance, while China believes that development should be or is the most important democratic right of the people. What do you think of these competing narratives?

Correa: Certainly, I think that development is key, and this is one of the reasons why we promote very actively the right to development. Such a declaration has already been adopted, now some discussions are taking place to develop a legally binding instrument on the right to development. But certainly, one important principle of international law is no interference, is to leave each country the freedom to define its own strategy of development. Any attempt to modify or to influence this is something that, in our view, is not acceptable. Every country has the right to determine what development strategy it will follow. And in some cases, we know they will follow strategies that are not based on the western model with great success. China, of course, is a major example.

Thus, we think that the attempts by the United States to model the whole world cannot be in any way supported. We need to leave countries the freedom to make their own choices. And of course, we are very much concerned about the measures that United States is taking today to ban transfer of technology and equipment to China and other countries on the argument of national security, which is a very vague argument. Clearly, they want to stop the technological catching up of other countries. They want to remain as the technological leaders. What we need in the world is cooperation and solidarity, and not trying to stop progress of other countries. Certainly, we are very much concerned about these trends, support developing countries’ efforts to find their own strategy for development and counter these influence measures.

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